Advise for a new cage

[ponyo]

Hello!
Im trying to make a DIY cage with the combination of acrylic and wood from my nearby woodcrafter, because there is none of cages in here (metal and also unsafe wood based cages such as teak, pine, mahogany. Which is popular woods in my country) However during that time im trying to find some inspiration and found this cage catch my attention. Im thinking to buy this one, however my concern is the cage use plywood (i dont know which wood is used as a based of plywood) and also have a have some edges of plywood inside the cage. Im worried if the hams will chew it and it is still offgassing. any advise, is it will be safe or not?

 

[Maz]

I don't know the cage unfortunately but it looks like it might be made for guinea pigs as it has large ventilation slots and a hamster could probably escape from it like that. Plywood is difficult. It might be ok but it depends on the construction and what glues are used.

If you have more than one hamster though, they'd each need a separate cage.

Do you have an Ikea near you? An easy diy is the Ikea Platsa and it's not expensive. It's basically a wardrobe frame. You just put the flatpack together and tip it on it's back. Other than that, the only diy needed is to make a lid out of strips of wood and mesh - so it's escape-proof.

It comes in various sizes.

PLATSA white, Frame, 60x55x120 cm - IKEA

PLATSA white, Frame, 60x55x120 cm. Build your PLATSA storage as you want it – high or low, under a sloping ceiling or along an entire wall. It assembles in minutes with a simple “click”. Finish with doors and interior organisers as needed.

www.ikea.com

PLATSA white, Frame, 80x55x120 cm - IKEA

PLATSA white, Frame, 80x55x120 cm. Build your PLATSA storage as you want it – high or low, under a sloping ceiling or along an entire wall. It assembles in minutes with a simple “click”. Finish with doors and interior organisers as needed.

www.ikea.com

 

[ponyo]

Yeah, im try to looking for aspen or birch wood as a main material but unfortunately i couldn't find any in here, the only birch in here is birch plywood with F4 stars and E0 grade. In the first time, im planning to use kiln dried Pine. However found on some forums, several people said even kiln dried pine still unsafe and plywood is can be used if we are offgassing it for several weeks or months however im not sure if that would be safe or not.

Yes, i do have IKEA in my area and try looking for Platsa as well but they are out of stock and dont know when will restock it. Hopefully IKEA in here stock Platsa since IKEA doesn't popular in my country.

The only options are fully acrylic cage and this one
Basicly its multiplex wood (have more layer than plywood) with HPL finishing.

 

[Maz]

An acrylic cage is fine, providing it has a fully ventilated lid/roof (1cm square mesh is best) but acrylic can be expensive. Fibreboard is ok if it's laminated because that kind of seals the fibreboard inside. The risky things are things like raw chipboard or mdf. Solid pine is also fine for a cage - providing the wood has been kiln dried - it's not the same thing as pine wood shavings for litter. The risky thing about the wood shavings is that a greater surface area is exposed with multiple shavings, so the phenols are dangerous. In the Uk, any pine wood sold at a diy store will already have been kiln dried - not sure if that's the same where you are. However - some hamsters will easily chew out of a wood cage! So laminated board is less chewable.

Are there any second hand fish tank options? I know it can be hard finding one the right dimensions as some are a bit narrow. Ideally it wants to be about 20" deep and 100" long (or more) and about 20" tall. That would need a lid/roof making out of strips of wood and mesh as well.

Some used fish tanks can be quite cheap. They may be quite stained and dirty after use, but can be cleaned up and disinfected quite well with a bit of elbow grease!

 

[Maz]

The other alternative is a bin cage. There might not be any bins large enough, but if you can find one tall enough and deep enough then what some people do is get two, cut one end off each of them and kind of slide one partly inside the other to make one longer one. You'd then have raw cut edges showing inside so they might need sanding and the two bins hot glueing together. Again you'd need to cut the lids and join them in the same way so you've got one long lid. Then cut out the entire centre of the lid except the very edges - and mesh it.

 

[ponyo]

Yeah, acrylic alone is cost a lot around $200 for 120x50x50 cage size.

Thanks Maz, now i have a lot options
1. Solid pine (kiln dried)
2. IKEA Platsa
3. from what i read, laminated board also contains melamine and also synthetic glue, is that okay? CMIIW

In here, Pine woods have 2 types:
1. Solid Pinewood (mostly not kiln dried, but you can find kiln dried ones)
2. Guazuma ulmifolia (Dutch Teak wood however its classified as pinewood species)
Dutch teak wood have been common material in here as a base material for DIY or Pallets because its cheaper than other solid woods (Teak, Oak, Mahogany) and also can recycled / reused.

We have second hand fish tank in here, but the condition is not great as i expected. Make a new one also cost me the same as buy IKEA Platsa and also not flexible to move around because its heavy to lift by a single person (going bring the cage on my 2nd floor)

That would be a great ideas! Using combined bins will take into my options as well.

Sorry maybe a bit OOT, as you mention about wood shavings. I wanna ask about bedding, in here we are rarely have aspen shavings. A commonly bedding brands used here is Vitakraft, Allspans, Jolly (white Poplar wood chips), and Chipsi. I found spen beddings (Niteangel) and aspen bedding for reptiles but the price is expensive because its imported product. Any suggestion for this? Because as i know paper bedding is more expensive than wood shavings.

 

[Maz]

I think there's a difference between actual melamine and "foil coated" or laminated board. What we tend to think of as melamine probably isn't actually melamine. For example the ikea stuff isn't melamine but looks like what you think melamine is @Daisy knows more about this than me And maybe also about Dutch teak wood as I'm not sure about that.

I haven't heard of poplar shavings, but they sound ok as long as they're dust extracted or kiln dried. Yes wood shavings will work out quite a bit cheaper but it can be difficult to find one that's suitable.

Allspan is about 95% Spruce (which is fine) and 5% untreated softwoods (not specified which softwoods and suggests they're not kiln dried). There has been something raised about the suitability of this recently.

Chipsi Classic is a mix of Spruce and Fir (Pine), kiln dried, which is better than just pine but the percentages of each wood aren't known - so it's possible some batches might be mostly pine. If you decided to use something like Chipsi Classic, I'd suggest using it half and half mixed with paper bedding possibly.

Can you get hemp bedding? That's ok. It doesn't hold tunnels as well but you could mix that with paper bedding maybe.

Although paper bedding is more expensive, you only really need a lot of it when first setting up the cage. After that, a standard sized bag would last months, as you'd just need to spot clean the pee area mainly. And maybe do a third substrate change every 6 months or so - keeping the other third.

Can you get kaytee clean and cozy? If not do you have a shredder? Some people make their own paper bedding by putting kitchen towel sheets or toilet paper through a shredder. But I'm not entirely sure that would be economical either!

 

[Daisy]

I'm not sure of the specific glues used in laminated board but melamine glues are sometimes used in engineered woods in general, as well as other unsafe things like formaldehyde.

I'd go for the Platsa over laminate, as most Ikea things do use another type of non-toxic plastic rather than melamine these days. It will also be much lighter than a laminate or other solid wood. A low-formadehyde plywood is also an option for a cage (and I'd go for this over laminate), but will be extremely heavy.

I'm not sure about Dutch teak. I see from Wikipedia that the leaves and fruits are edible which makes it much less likely that the wood is toxic. But I don't know for sure. I would think it's very low risk to use in a cage with smooth walls (without any chewing edges) because it's unlikely a hamster is going to be able to chew it very much, if at all. You can paint or seal it as well to give it a bit more protection.

 

[ponyo]

I think there's a difference between actual melamine and "foil coated" or laminated board. What we tend to think of as melamine probably isn't actually melamine. For example the ikea stuff isn't melamine but looks like what you think melamine is @Daisy knows more about this than me And maybe also about Dutch teak wood as I'm not sure about that.

I haven't heard of poplar shavings, but they sound ok as long as they're dust extracted or kiln dried. Yes wood shavings will work out quite a bit cheaper but it can be difficult to find one that's suitable.

Allspan is about 95% Spruce (which is fine) and 5% untreated softwoods (not specified which softwoods and suggests they're not kiln dried). There has been something raised about the suitability of this recently.

Chipsi Classic is a mix of Spruce and Fir (Pine), kiln dried, which is better than just pine but the percentages of each wood aren't known - so it's possible some batches might be mostly pine. If you decided to use something like Chipsi Classic, I'd suggest using it half and half mixed with paper bedding possibly.

Can you get hemp bedding? That's ok. It doesn't hold tunnels as well but you could mix that with paper bedding maybe.

Although paper bedding is more expensive, you only really need a lot of it when first setting up the cage. After that, a standard sized bag would last months, as you'd just need to spot clean the pee area mainly. And maybe do a third substrate change every 6 months or so - keeping the other third.

Can you get kaytee clean and cozy? If not do you have a shredder? Some people make their own paper bedding by putting kitchen towel sheets or toilet paper through a shredder. But I'm not entirely sure that would be economical either!

Thanks a lot for the advice, Maz.


So this is poplar shavings that we have in here

I read your post about Chipsi, unfortunately they can't give clear information about the percentage of ingredients. Better going for Allspan classic? Which is we already know the spruce inside is 95%

I saw several people using 4 layers bedding. 1st layer is wood shavings, 2nd is hemp, 3rd is orchad hay, and 4th is wood shaving. For the substrate is paper / tissue based and etc (such as herbs, coconut peat, and the others). Is that good? Because the temperature in our country is 24 - 30°C and when the summer comes the peak is 34°C.

Because of summer is too hot, i want to try to put some mini fan / air conditioning on top or side cage to avoid the hams catch heat stroke.

We didn't have Kaytee brand here
Almost all the papers / tissue selled in here is handmade by the seller. We can found imported Paper / tissue based beddings like Bucatstate, Niteangel, YEE (Twist Paper), Josanty, and Wawo. So, i consider to take Bucatstate and Niteangel, i dont know about the rest.

No, i never did that before, but im willing to try it. I guess it will consume a time but low on cost.

 

[ponyo]

I'm not sure of the specific glues used in laminated board but melamine glues are sometimes used in engineered woods in general, as well as other unsafe things like formaldehyde.

I'd go for the Platsa over laminate, as most Ikea things do use another type of non-toxic plastic rather than melamine these days. It will also be much lighter than a laminate or other solid wood. A low-formadehyde plywood is also an option for a cage (and I'd go for this over laminate), but will be extremely heavy.

I'm not sure about Dutch teak. I see from Wikipedia that the leaves and fruits are edible which makes it much less likely that the wood is toxic. But I don't know for sure. I would think it's very low risk to use in a cage with smooth walls (without any chewing edges) because it's unlikely a hamster is going to be able to chew it very much, if at all. You can paint or seal it as well to give it a bit more protection.

Hi Daisy, thank for the explanation.

Yeah, hopefully IKEA will restock Platsa again in here.

So the plywood is okay as long as it is low-formaldehyde? Because we have Birch Plywood in here. The plywood itself isn't free - formaldehyde but low-formaldehyde using urea formaldehyde as a glue (F4 grades and E0 Plywood)

So, we should avoid making any edges inside the cage to prevent the hams chew on it. The paint or the seal should be waterbased or non toxic, isn't it?

 

[Daisy]

Hi Daisy, thank for the explanation.

Yeah, hopefully IKEA will restock Platsa again in here.

So the plywood is okay as long as it is low-formaldehyde? Because we have Birch Plywood in here. The plywood itself isn't free - formaldehyde but low-formaldehyde using urea formaldehyde as a glue (F4 grades and E0 Plywood)

So, we should avoid making any edges inside the cage to prevent the hams chew on it. The paint or the seal should be waterbased or non toxic, isn't it?

For a cage with all smooth surfaces, low-formaldehyde plywood is fairly safe as the glues (which may or may not be toxic) are sealed inside the wood.

For the paint or sealant, look for one that's marked toy safe as that means it's non-toxic, and ideally also find the safety data sheet which will also have information about any potential toxicity.

 

[ponyo]

For a cage with all smooth surfaces, low-formaldehyde plywood is fairly safe as the glues (which may or may not be toxic) are sealed inside the wood.

For the paint or sealant, look for one that's marked toy safe as that means it's non-toxic, and ideally also find the safety data sheet which will also have information about any potential toxicity.

thanks a lot, Daisy.
Oh i forgot about the last wood i got here. Gmelina wood, i saw on other website its classified as hardwood. Ever you hear about this kind of wood?

 

[ponyo]

Study Case about Gmelina woods

 

[Maz]

It's a hardwood also known as white teak. It might be ok. It contains gmelinol which is apparently a lignan and also a medicinal plant in India for pain relief (according to google searches). The only concern might be if the hamster chewed and ate it as too much might be harmful.

 

[Maz]

Study Case about Gmelina woods

Posted at the same time. Good find @ponyo ! It sounds ok.

However bear in mind that any wood cage can be chewed out of!

 

[Maz]

Personally I think either a double bin cage or glass tank might be better - or the Platsa board which has been widely used (although some hamsters have chewed out of Platsa's as well but if the corners and edges are well put together it should be ok.

If you're getting a female syrian though, I probably wouldn't use a wood cage.

 

[ponyo]

Hahahaha thanks Maz, now i can ask my nearby crafter if they can make Gmelia wood as a cage. Is there any tips to make wood being chewed by hams? Or we cant avoid this since its wood.

This is the picture of cage i want to make

 

[Maz]

I know some people reinforce corners with metal brackets on things like Pawhuts - but maybe see if it's a chewy hamster first.

With the cage you show above it needs a lot more ventilation. The holes on the side wouldn't be any good as they're too big. Personally I would mesh the two angled top doors instead of having perspex in them, and just have perspex at the front. Additional ventilation slots would be good too - maybe on the roof bit further back or the sides near the top, but they need to be well under 1cm (ie longer narrower slots).

For mesh you need 1cm square mesh or less.

 

[Maz]

That photo is scary! It has two syrians inside! (Even if they are photoshopped in there) - they should always live alone (which I'm sure you know) and a Syrian would just walk out of those round holes!

 

[ponyo]

I know some people reinforce corners with metal brackets on things like Pawhuts - but maybe see if it's a chewy hamster first.

With the cage you show above it needs a lot more ventilation. The holes on the side wouldn't be any good as they're too big. Personally I would mesh the two angled top doors instead of having perspex in them, and just have perspex at the front. Additional ventilation slots would be good too - maybe on the roof bit further back or the sides near the top, but they need to be well under 1cm (ie longer narrower slots).

For mesh you need 1cm square mesh or less.

Ah thanks a lot for the advices!
For now, the cage problems should be fine enough. Have many options already, i will compare all option to get the right one.

By the way, what do you think about Vitakraft wood shavings? Is that Pine based?