Sand question and debate thread on welfare requirements

[SupremeOverlord]

I find that a great difficulty for hamster owners is that information on hamster care is ever changing yet sparse, because what may be suitable in the present may be found to be completely inadequate in a few years, or, like you said, in different parts of the world. The few studies on cage size and bedding depth have changed the standards for hamster enclosures in the past years, and even they can be flawed in its methods. I hope you share what you find regarding the safety and distinction of different sands. I agree that this is an important and interesting topic. Mistreatment of small pets are so normalized and even expected, and their short lifespans are often used as an excuse when its more of a reason to provide them the best care possible.

 

[Maz]

There's a helpful piece in this link from a geologist who explains the misinformation and lack of understanding re silica sand. I think in California, all kinds of products have cancer warnings on (including some hamster bedding) but it's not actually a risk and more the politics of California to declare all kinds of things (without giving the full details or circumstances).

"Additionally, some manufacturers of alternative play sand materials often refer to cancer warnings on bags or cite California Prop 65 warnings in an effort to raise concern but don’t bother to describe why the warning or who it is intended for.
Fact 1: It is not the crystalline silica that is the concern of OHSA or the California Prop 65 legislation. It is the 'respirable' portion of that material – the tiniest of particles that can get deep into your lungs.
These are generally created when sand is crushed or pulverized or used in sand-blasting operations. It is these processes that create the respirable dust of concern.
Fact 2: These warnings are for industrial workers who have extended periods of exposure every day, 8 hours/day for 20-40 years. That's what the epidemiological studies have determined.
The US Consumer Product Safety Commission (US CPSC) has looked at the issue of crystalline silica and respirable silica, and decided it was not a hazard to children using play sand in a sandbox."

Does your play sand contain crystalline silica or other harmful materials?

Geologist Jerry Bergosh aka The Sandman has responded to the concerns of silica in play sand for over 25 years! He discusses where the concerns have stemmed from and the truth behind a lot of misinformation. Read more on the safety of children's sandbox play sand here!

www.jurassicsand.com

 

[Maz]

I find that a great difficulty for hamster owners is that information on hamster care is ever changing yet sparse, because what may be suitable in the present may be found to be completely inadequate in a few years, or, like you said, in different parts of the world. The few studies on cage size and bedding depth have changed the standards for hamster enclosures in the past years, and even they can be flawed in its methods. I hope you share what you find regarding the safety and distinction of different sands. I agree that this is an important and interesting topic. Mistreatment of small pets are so normalized and even expected, and their short lifespans are often used as an excuse when its more of a reason to provide them the best care possible.

Yes that is the case and it's been difficult for many years. And it's good to see that three uk pet welfare charities have now come out with recommended guidelines.

In the Uk, the RSPCA used to have a minimum recommended cage size of 80cm x 50cm but they recommended larger if possible and probably having to diy if larger. As a result the largest cage available for hamsters in the Uk was 80cm x 50cm (and as now, still plenty of awful tiny cages). However we could get 100cm cages from Germany! Where the welfare minimum was 100cm x 50cm (Germany has much more stringent legislation for pet welfare). Their recommended minimum was 1 metre square.

For myself and many others, the right size of cage etc came from experience. To me an 80cm x 50cm really just didn't quite do it (at least for large Syrian hamsters) and some could still bar chew and just not have enough space for enough enrichment, once they had a suitable sized wheel!

So I upgraded ours to a 100cm cage and it was spot on. You could tell by the hamster's behaviour and the amount of space for enrichment (eg room for large wheel, multiroom house and platform) made such a difference. While the hamster still wanted to come out, they were more content in the cage if they didn't come out.

I personally used to have 6" of bedding and a multiroom house, which worked well for all my Syrians. (And yes they vary in personality but the space seemed right for all of them). I had read and seen German hamster owners with 30cm of bedding and the hamster digging tunnels and to some degree that was also more common in the US were most people had tanks due to the lack of barred cages. In the Uk it was the other way round - tanks were prohibitively expensive and not geared for hamsters (needed lids making), but a really good choice of barred cages.

I actually tried our first syrian with deeper bedding and he did dig tunnels but he wasn't happy, he was living in a stinky mess and I noticed he still used a small house as a "porch" as he didn't seem at all happy about emerging from a tunnel with nothing overhead - too open.

So I put a large multiroom house in (before they were really known about in the Uk - it came from germany) and he moved straight in and was happy as pie. Used one room for nesting, one for hoarding, one for toiletting. And didn't bother to dig tunnels any more!

So my personal view was - hamsters just want a safe enclosed space to nest and to feel secure and a multiroom house mimics a burrow and they are happy with that. ie there is more than one way to achieve a happy hamster and let them have normal behaviours.

However since the new pet welfare guidelines came out they do say it should be at least 8" to 10" of bedding so they can dig tunnels. And if they have that much bedding they usually do and live in a burrow. The irony is the multiroom house is now seen as a must have, even though the hamsters with deep bedding rarely live in it They sometimes use it as a "porch".

And it depends on the species. Robos definitely need to dig tunnels (but can do so in lesser amounts of bedding) and definitely need sand baths. Many dwarf and Syrian hamsters do too, but some Syrians are just lazy ha ha. Many of my syrians have shown no interest in sand whatsoever.

I accept though that they all do like digging and that enriches their normal behaviours.

It's what people get used to as well. 12 years ago some people swore their hamsters were unhappy in a "large" 80 x 50 cage and happier in a small 60 x 40 one. But the cage probably mimicked a burrow it was so small and the hamsters needed daily out of cage time as they could hardly have a life in a small cage or do much except eat, sleep and wheel.

It takes mental adjustment. The 80 x 50 was so ingrained that some people found it hard to accept the idea a cage needed to be at least 100cm x 50cm. But then that size can start to feel small once you get used to it!

I personally feel 100cm x 50cm is the "sweet spot" for all species of hamster and allows enough space for them to be active and enough space for plenty of enrichment. That was just based on my own experience, long before the new Uk welfare guidelines came in.

On here we encourage the minimum 8" of bedding, but say that 6" with a multiroom house is the minimum. However deeper is better.

We had our own guidelines before the new Uk pet welfare guidelines came out, based on personal experiences of many owners, regardless of what research said (and there was very little research and most was hard to quantify) exactly. Most research doesn't take account for different genetics or the fact the hamsters can have a bond with a human that changes their behaviour as well. It's common sense that, as prey animals, they like to be "under" something when sleeping - whether that's underground or in a ready made wooden box that mimics a burrow. That they all like to bury hoards to keep their food supplies safe and they have a need to run a lot.

There are so many interesting aspects to hamsters though, that researchers can't always quantify IMO.

I've had quite a few syrians with completely different personalities. Although behaviours are all largely the same. Some want to be out more, some want to hide away more (but the hide away ones often end up being the most affectionate once they have bonded with a human IMO).

The problem is there does need to be some kind of standard or people would still be keeping hamsters in shoebox sized cages (which sadly does still happen in some countries).

There is no actual legislation on hamster welfare in the Uk or the US (there is to a degree in Germany). Which is why manufacturers can get away with selling totally unsuitable items.

I think time and trial and error has shown that hamsters do love natural enrichment and their lives are more rewarded for it. However I personally don't think we need to mimic their lives in the wild, where they live quite a short time (usually killed as prey). It isn't normal for them to live in any cage or enclosure and their raison d'etre seems to be to always escape and get a bit further - even a whole room and they want into the next room and so on. And they are also pets and domesticated and not wild. They may have some of their wild instincts hard wired but as domesticated pets they can eat human food (luxury) and bond with people. So my view has always been that the human bond is an important aspect to their wellbeing and enriches their lives.

Likewise there didn't used to be a proper minimum cage size in the US (and still isn't!). The ASPCA recommended something like a 10 gallon tank as a minimum size, which is absolutely tiny and not fit to keep a hamster in.

The US largely followed Uk sizes, or whatever size tank seemed available, so the unofficial minimum size in the Us for many years was a 40 gallon breeder tank (about 90cm x 45cm).

Anyway I'm going to change the title of this thread to a debate thread (we have those sometimes and they are very good for people to air opinions and discuss these things which are helpful to all of us

So what are your views on the welfare cage sizes and so on?

The one thing that makes me a bit sad these days, is the seeming hatred in some quarters of the internet - for barred cages. There is a lot of misinformation about that as well. True they don't have very deep bases for deep bedding - but they can be easily adapted to hold deep bedding. True they have bars! Which creates very good ventilation and the hamster interacts more in the actual room than behind a glass or perspex wall - they smell your dinner and you and react accordingly! Yes hamsters can climb bars - but providing the cage is at least 100cm - they actually don't do that. They have no need to. They only climb bars to try and find a way out when they feel it's too small. Likewise, the vast majority of hamsters don't chew bars in a 100cm cage. And I can speak from experience there. Which is why 100 x 50 is the sweet spot. The hamsters don't try and climb or chew bars and are happy and settled.

I'm talking mainly about Syrians there though and robos. Dwarf hamsters can and do climb bars and risk dropping - so the height needs to be right if it's a barred cage (or the distance between the top of the bedding and the top of the cage needs to be right).

But I don't like the trend that "only tanks" are right for hamsters. Again there is more than one way of doing things. And also some humans find cages easier than tanks or more suited to the way they do things. Humans are all different too!

Many "anti" comments about barred cages I've seen are peoples' own personal psychology "behind bars", "caged animal" and not based on hamster welfare at all. The fact is barred cages can be pretty indestructible and secure as well - as long as the base is well made. But some female syrians will chew out of anything - a plastic cage base, definitely a wood enclosure, they've been known to chew the silicone joints off tanks so the tanks fall apart .....

To me it's about floorspace and enrichment, not the style of cage or enclosure or what the cage is made of (unless it's wood and then it's asking to be chewed out of!).

 

[SupremeOverlord]

I believe that the preference and personality of the hamster definitely plays major a role in what would be considered proper care. It doesn't matter what guidelines you follow or how closely you follow them if your hamster still exhibits stress behaviors. Some hamsters may be happier in smaller enclosures, while others may never be happy, no matter how big the enclosure is. I have heard of hamsters being overwhelmed by a large space after living in small enclosures in pet stores, and female Syrians in large enclosures who will never stop trying to escape. The important thing is to listen to them and do the best you can to accommodate. Research and guidelines are important and can serve as a great starting point, but when a hamster is unhappy in an enclosure, an effort should be made to solve this problem and alleviate its stress. As long as the cage does not pose as a risk, such as falling from a dangerous height or encourages dangerous behaviors like bar biting and monkey barring, and the hamster exhibits healthy behaviors, I would say it is suitable. I believe many have a knee-jerk reaction to barred cages because the most common types are tiny and marketed to children rather than for the well being of a hamster, with its colorful plastic tubes and small dimensions. Barred cages that allow ample horizontal space and deep bedding are rare. It is also very common for uneducated owners to turn to inadequate products because they are so accessible, and proper care is not as well known or widespread.

As for bathing sand, personally, I usually use zeolite based sands for my hamster, as it eliminates the concerns I have for silica sands. Even if shorter exposures are not harmful for humans, by burrowing, digging, and bathing in it, they are putting their faces into it and kicking it up, and I do not monitor exactly how many times they do this per day. Additionally, they are small and rather fragile, so I am concerned that even what's perceived to be a little could cause problems. I do understand your arguments, however, and appreciate the explanations.

 

[Maz]

If you have any recommendations for zeolite sand, do please share Others may appreciate it. I'm on the fence with sands personally. For many years I used a German brand sepiolite based sand and never had any issues. However, more and more concerns were raised about it, and I'll be honest I did find it would stick to the ceramic toilet and be hard to remove (although it didn't clump as some people claim), so we now don't recommend using sepiolite sands. But I wouldn't go so far as to say they are entirely unsafe when German owners use them and some people prefer using it. I use the Komodo natural sand. I find it a bit soft compared to sepiolite sand and did prefer the texture of the sepiolite sand, but my two syrians both ignore it anyway ha ha. I think some syrians use a sand bath as a second toilet, and mine just seem to dig once, find it doesn't go anywhere, and then give up. My robos have LOVED rolling in their sand baths though.

As long as the cage does not pose as a risk, such as falling from a dangerous height or encourages dangerous behaviors like bar biting and monkey barring,

You see this is one of the anti-cage myths that gets spread around on the internet. It isn't the cage itself - it's the size of the cage. For Syrian hamsters there really aren't issues with bar biting and monkey barring. PROVIDING the cage is 100cm or larger. It is only an issue in SMALL cages. Because the hamster is stressed. The first night in a barred cage, a hamster will climb the bars and explore every mm of the cage to check it all out and see if there are any escape routes. After that they don't bother. (Some females are the exception re bar biting unless the cage is bigger than 100cm but even then they can settle down quite quickly).

For dwarf hamsters, yes they can climb and monkey bar sometimes, depending on the hamster - even in a 100cm cage. They are literally little monkeys. Roborovski hamsters don't bar bite and monkey bar and struggle to climb bars even if they wanted to. However, some people prefer tanks for robos anyway due to worries about bar spacing (but there are options with suitable bar spacing).

That is why 100cm x 50cm is the sweet spot. It's the point at which most Syrian hamsters won't bar bite or monkey bar. (Exceptions tend to be the occasional female as mentioned above). But it comes down to cage size, not the fact that it's barred

And as you say the myth has spread because that is historically what happened when cages were too small. One thing that used to concern me the most, before there was a 100cm minimum guideline - was that people who found hamsters were bar biting in small cages would then put them in a small tank! So of course they couldn't bar bite in a tank, but that didn't take away the stress of being in a small environment and the stress would come out in other ways. So it really all does come down to size. The hamsters themselves show us, by their behaviours, what is an acceptable size.

I would also say it's a myth that some hamsters are overwhelmed by space after being in a small cage at a pet shop. That was an arugment that used to be used a lot by people who doggedly believed small cages were ok. Most hamsters when brought home and introduced to their new environment are overwhelmingly happy and love it. Provided it is set up. Put them in a half empty large cage and yes they would be overwhelmed. But if it has plenty of bedding, lots of cover (cork logs, plenty of hides, platform etc and sprays for cover) they settle in straight away.

A new baby hamster will hide away initially because they're babies but that's the same in any cage or enclosure.

There will be the occasional rare exception perhaps. Eg a rescue hamster who has been in a small cage most of their lives - but I still believe most are much happier in a larger environment unless they have particular special needs. For a special needs hamster, the best way is to still use a larger or 100cm cage but have it set up so it's like a smaller cage that can be expanded into - eg one third end all deep bedding and then gradually move that back. But I have yet to hear of any hamster these days, who doesn't use every bit of space in their cage - providing there is enough cover

What size is "too small" has always been the difficult point which was why there needed to be a minimum size guideline.

I have to say at one time there were some quite strong factions - pro cage anti tank and vice versa! There are arguments for both but I think partly it's what people are used to. I like tanks (if they have front access) but prefer barred cages for all kinds of reasons - although it's a complete pain adding bedding panels sometimes!

A big cause of bar biting in smaller cages (and I don't mean really small, I mean less than 100cm) was actually stress caused by humans - cleaning the hamster out too much and removing all their scent. The hamster is stressed so doesn't feel secure and tries to chew their way out. So cleaning methods are also really important to avoid stress. That was mainly in the days were people would just have 2 to 3 inches of bedding and do a full cage clean weekly.

 

[Maz]

Re the sand. There was a time when I thought NO sand was safe for hamsters. And it used to be considered optional for syrians. These days the view is that all hamsters need a large sand bath. And maybe that is right, but then it does mean the sand needs to be safe as you say. All I can say is I have rarely come across a case of a hamster having a health issue related to sand. Unless it was the old "dust" from the past. Bedding yes - many issues caused by various beddings. But I totally take your point - we all want the best and safest for our hamsters

 

[Maz]

Apart from the Niteangel sand, are there any others with Zeolite that you know of? I'm also curious to know more about Zeolite

 

[SupremeOverlord]

I know of brands such as Marukan CASA and Tafit, but these may be difficult to obtain depending on your location.

 

[Maz]

Thank you Yes I haven't seen those brands in Europe which is interesting if different parts of the world have more variety of sands available.

 

[Maz]

As regards cage size, in some countries it's very difficult finding anything a suitable size and some owners have to diy or compromise a little the best they can.

 

[Maz]

From the little I've seen about Zeolite it seems to be something to help prevent odours? @Daisy knows more about different sand types than me I think

 

[Maz]

I know of brands such as Marukan CASA and Tafit, but these may be difficult to obtain depending on your location.

The Marukan Casa for hamsters seems to be diatomaceous earth, which is generally considered not safe for hamsters due to inhalation of it unfortunately. The Degu version is zeolite though. The Tafit one seems to be 70% desert sand and 30% pumice. Pumice is supposed to be an issue for hamsters' respiratory tracts as it's too fine a dust. Unless there's another version of the Tafit.