Flour mites 😫

[Magpie]

Yes- every section of the black frame is hollow! like hollow box section. The top corners have blanker covers over them but the feet do not. There are 4 long sections and 8 shorter ones. All are hollow and all have deep grooves for the perspex to sit in. The corner connectors also harboured bugs and were tricky to clean and dry with all the nooks and crannies.

( you might remember that the last time I gutted out the tank for these bugs I noticed one on the bottom of one of the legs almost as soon as I sat down when I was all finished and Mr Maggie was back in there... which made me wonder if there were some inside the frame. I had hoped it was just a lone survivor but was keeping an eagle eye out and sure enough they came back with a bang)

It was VERY difficult to clean the framework out- especially the 4 longer sections as they don't fit in the sink! If you have a bath then you could probably more effectively soak/clean using that. (we do not!) they are also not very wide openings so cant even use a bottle brush or anything like that (length would be an issue too)

I didn't hoover anything this time (other than the room). I took the tank outside and dismantled it there then cleaned all the parts in sections.

The short sections of the frame I cleaned in the sink. I couldn't submerge them but cleaned down the exterior and used a cup to pour the cleaning solution through them. I confess I did use bleach because these are parts of the tank which will not be in contact with Mr Maggie. They were thoroughly rinsed with clean hot water afterwards and THEN I sprayed them with vinegar solution which I let sit before cleaning off and leaving to dry. I was able to spray vinegar solution in through these but just how effective this was I will never know.

The longer sections I had to just blast with the outside tap/hose to flush them out before then spraying vinegar into them from each end. I just have to hope its been enough.

I will say that they are very difficult to dry as well! I let them drip dry and gave them a bit of a shake then had to resort to using my hair dryer on them.

His bag of food (which is nearly finished) was in a sealed tub and I cant see any evidence of infestation in there. I had to use this to replace his hoard so there are a few spoons back in the tank as well as in his bowl. I have a new bag of food in the freezer which should be ready by now. (I forgot to make a note of when I froze it so am leaving it a few more days) feel quite paranoid now about them coming back again. I have just put his science selective pellets in the freezer too just to be on the safe side as there was one bug on the lid of that container (sits under the table where the tanks was)

I have new sprays in the freezer but they wont be safe to use until next weekend. I've just ordered a few new bits too but will need to wait for them to arrive and be frozen so will be a while before I can use them. I think I will chuck all the sprays but would like to save the bigger things like his tunnel and coconut hide, as well as his pressed floral disc and lotus pod etc. I think for those I will freeze for a week, thaw for 24 hours then freeze again a week to try and ensure that any bugs and eggs are dead. may all be futile!

I'll keep my fingers and toes crossed for us both Maz!

 

[Maz]

Nightmare job but it sounds like you have it sorted - and yes a bath can come in handy! Or a trough outside at least. When I had my first moth outbreak many years ago (and it was a massive outbreak! I didn't know about freezing food back then), the vet told me to submerge the entire cage in disinfectant for hours. Which wasn't actually possible even with a bath as the cage top was one solid piece. So I just sprayed it all in the bath and it sat in a pool of disinfectant for some time.

 

[Maz]

Is it the 100cm one? If so I would say you'd need 100 to 120 litres to give about 8". However if it's Kaytee clean and cozy you might need more, because it doesn't expand as much as you'd expect. Presumably you'll be keeping most of his old bedding from his current cage anyway though, to spread on top.

 

[Magpie]

this is a bucatstate 2 so is 100x50cm

From scratch in use 2x full packs of the Dihl paper bedding so a total of 140 Ltrs however with the platforms I have just now only half of the tank has a full depth of bedding. I would probably need another pack to do the full tank, so just over 200 litres

 

[Maz]

180 litres sounds fine. I used 140 litres of fitch to fill a 120cm cage with 10" of bedding But different bedding types vary as to how much they fill up the enclosure - so the litres aren't that comparable for different types of bedding really. But 180 litres sounds fine. What did you get in the end?

 

[Maz]

I shall have to try that I haven't used it before.

 

[Magpie]

I’ve never used the bucatstate bedding. I’m sure 180L will be fine but having extra won’t hurt. I like to have 2 packs in the cupboard so I’m always ready for a full changeover in case of emergencies.

 

[NuggetHam]

I’ve never used the bucatstate bedding. I’m sure 180L will be fine but having extra won’t hurt. I like to have 2 packs in the cupboard so I’m always ready for a full changeover in case of emergencies.

How’s the mite situation??

 

[Magpie]

Annoyingly they are suddenly now back again. Noticed them 2 nights ago.

Seems like there is absolutely nothing I can do about them?! He's had a bit of a stressful time recently with full enclosure clear out for the bugs then a new puppy arrived as well as renovation work on the house meaning we had to move house for a week, so I'm loathed to gut his tank out again right now. (plus I don't have the luxury of time and space right now with all the above still ongoing!) They do him no harm so will need to try to ignore them for now he's ready for a total clearout again.

The last effort was monumental. It took all day. There's literally nothing more I can do to try and be rid of them. I've no idea what they are or where they come from. Everything that's back in there was baked or frozen for over 2 weeks to be sure... other than Mr Maggie himself!

Just feels totally futile at this point.

 

[NuggetHam]

Annoyingly they are suddenly now back again. Noticed them 2 nights ago.

Seems like there is absolutely nothing I can do about them?! He's had a bit of a stressful time recently with full enclosure clear out for the bugs then a new puppy arrived as well as renovation work on the house meaning we had to move house for a week, so I'm loathed to gut his tank out again right now. (plus I don't have the luxury of time and space right now with all the above still ongoing!) They do him no harm so will need to try to ignore them for now he's ready for a total clearout again.

The last effort was monumental. It took all day. There's literally nothing more I can do to try and be rid of them. I've no idea what they are or where they come from. Everything that's back in there was baked or frozen for over 2 weeks to be sure... other than Mr Maggie himself!

Just feels totally futile at this point.

Oh no!!!! I’m battling them myself and was wondering. Maybe once the weather is drier?? I haven’t done a complete clean out yet and now I’m wondering if I should bother. Just 50% plus baking cleaning freezing vinegar etc. ugh.

Sorry you’re dealing with this!! Keep us posted

 

[Maz]

Annoyingly they are suddenly now back again. Noticed them 2 nights ago.

Seems like there is absolutely nothing I can do about them?! He's had a bit of a stressful time recently with full enclosure clear out for the bugs then a new puppy arrived as well as renovation work on the house meaning we had to move house for a week, so I'm loathed to gut his tank out again right now. (plus I don't have the luxury of time and space right now with all the above still ongoing!) They do him no harm so will need to try to ignore them for now he's ready for a total clearout again.

The last effort was monumental. It took all day. There's literally nothing more I can do to try and be rid of them. I've no idea what they are or where they come from. Everything that's back in there was baked or frozen for over 2 weeks to be sure... other than Mr Maggie himself!

Just feels totally futile at this point.

I am so sorry. That is so unfair on both you and Mr Maggie. Could you just squish them for now and hope they don't proliferate?

 

[Maz]

I am trying to think - you did a really thorough cage clean - nothing could have survived that. I am sure they don't live on hamsters. The type that do live on hamsters are invisible to the naked eye (demodex mites). These are book lice. Eggs can hatch and eggs will be invisible but that is why you did such a thorough cage clean. When I've had to do that I have never had anything hatching from the hamster themselves, but as a precaution I have sometimes, gently wiped the hamster with an almost damp cloth before putting them back in by holding them in the cloth and letting them walk from it like a tunnel - virtually dry but just a few drops of water to dampen it enough to wipe anything off. I doubt it made any difference though.

All I can think now is they are somewhere else in the house and getting to the cage. Someone else did have them in other parts of the house. Do you have any house plants in the room with damp soil maybe?

The only other thing I can think is set up a spare cage newly set up with new items and move him to that and have it in a different room. Then disinfect the current enclosure and items again but leave him in the spare cage and don't re-use the enclosure and items for a while. And see what happens. They may not re-occur in the different cage with new items. It they reoccur in the disinfected cage with the items stacked in it you'll know there's still a source from something to do with the enclosure or items.

I think you mentioned you don't have a spare cage. It could be worth just getting a second hand plaza cage - you can get them for about £30 to £40 second hand. It's also easier to carry to another room if needed.

 

[Magpie]

I am so sorry. That is so unfair on both you and Mr Maggie. Could you just squish them for now and hope they don't proliferate?

I’m just squishing them for now.

We’ve got no plants in this room, and they aren’t anywhere else other than in and on his tank.

I don’t think they are on him but even if they are they aren’t harmful to him.

There is no way I could wipe him with anything. I’ve never been able to hold him and at the moment he’s a total ghost. I don’t think I could even get him to climb into his jug to be moved. When we moved for the week for the builders knocking down a wall we ended up moving him in the bucatstate. I tried to dig him up and pop him in his carrier but he was not happy. So decided the least stressful way was to move him as he was. I just removed the top level
Heavy things to prevent them falling over or moving.

He used to take food from me and happily hop Into his jug.

I will try again to be rid of them and perhaps entirely change his enclosure and quarantine the bucatstate but for the moment I’m just going to do the best I can to keep them at bay.

 

[Magpie]

Oh no!!!! I’m battling them myself and was wondering. Maybe once the weather is drier?? I haven’t done a complete clean out yet and now I’m wondering if I should bother. Just 50% plus baking cleaning freezing vinegar etc. ugh.

Sorry you’re dealing with this!! Keep us posted

I had the whole tank completely dismantled and cleaned it with vinegar solution then bleach… thoroughly rinsed and then blasted with a hair dryer. I feel like there’s nothing else I can do and that to do again would be a hiding to nothing.

 

[Maz]

It's a complete mystery. I am sure the Bucatstate was completely cleansed. Was there anything in the cage itself that could have been missed? I remember someone else who had them, eventually found them hatching out in a bag of wood chew sticks and that seemed to be the source. But I'm sure you've frozen or baked everything.

I am so sorry. I suppose it's not surprising he's hiding away after all the upheavals, but that can change. He could come out of it and you rebuild things - it's just if you can get rid of these bugs so he can have some stability.

I don't think you should keep completely disinfecting the cage and contents - it's too much for you and for Mr Maggie. A bit of googling suggested that even though the legs were completely cleaned out with bleach that could have created humidity and a breeding ground again as it's hard to fully dry inside them. It only takes a few eggs to survive I guess. The suggestion was seal off the legs so nothing can get out. Hmm - not sure if that would work.

If it was me I honestly would move him to a completely different cage and store the Bucatstate somewhere - a garage or something. And get a simple barred cage and base and move him to that, with new contents and have the cage in a different room - an upstairs room maybe. Because I can't see how they can come back then. Then at least you'd both have some peace - even if you have an infested Bucatstate outside.

I know that is extra cost though - but I mentioned a second hand plaza before. And you don't need to go overboard with cage contents. I'm sure he'd be perfectly happy with plenty of bedding, a cardboard shoebox house and a few hides and tunnels. And maybe use the green shelf. And keep it really simple. And then after a period of time, if all is well you could get some nicer things a bit at a time.

I wouldn't re-use anything at all. You don't need to throw them away. You could just wash/bake or leave them out in the sun and then store them somewhere.

What bedding are you using?

 

[Angel’s Teddybear]

Oh my goodness! This sounds like such a similar situation to mine. Try checking in any areas where you have hamster supplies nearby. Are we still thinking these are flour mites or these are booklice? Either way, anything humid can attract them. I know the feeling of feeling hopeless. I actually couldn’t fully get rid of them until Angel passed. Hopefully it isn’t the same for you. If you haven’t already gotten one, dehumidifier. I know I stress it a lot- but it is so useful. Harmless, except for the bugs. The bugs will slowly leave because of the unsuitable environment. I’ll be praying that they can be fully dealt with

 

[Maz]

Just out of interest @Angel’s Teddybear, after Angel passed (and I'm so sorry), and you cleared her enclosure and items from the room/house. Did the book lice stop then? I think at one point you had them in the bathroom near some plants didn't you?

And yes these are considered to be book lice.

 

[Angel’s Teddybear]

Yes, they did stop. Because I fully took away everything. I also had found a spot that had booklice where i didn’t know there was, so after I deep cleaned absolutely everything, there wasn’t a habitat to thrive in. And I do think you are thinking of someone else since I never have found them anywhere except the room Angel is kept in! It really is difficult to fully clean everything and check all the bases when you still have a hamster to care for. The cleaning of the cage afterwards took days, and I even just cleaned the last of the ceramics last night. (Procrastinating.. but don’t worry, they were kept in a tub I also had to wash and I hadn’t seen any booklice on those specific ceramics.) If you have any more questions about it let me know, i’m happy to help!

 

[Maz]

Yes, they did stop. Because I fully took away everything. I also had found a spot that had booklice where i didn’t know there was, so after I deep cleaned absolutely everything, there wasn’t a habitat to thrive in. And I do think you are thinking of someone else since I never have found them anywhere except the room Angel is kept in! It really is difficult to fully clean everything and check all the bases when you still have a hamster to care for. The cleaning of the cage afterwards took days, and I even just cleaned the last of the ceramics last night. (Procrastinating.. but don’t worry, they were kept in a tub I also had to wash and I hadn’t seen any booklice on those specific ceramics.) If you have any more questions about it let me know, i’m happy to help!

Oh I'm sorry! That means there must have been three people who have had booklice! Or similar bugs. Yes someone had plants in the bathroom and found them there and the plants were attracting them.