D
Dusty's Mom
This has me thinking about removing the topper floor, which can be done. It just slides out separately but it also holds the topper open. So I will have to think how that could be done. The wheel is attached to the wire topper so no platform needed there as long as the bedding is up high enough for Dusty to get to the wheel. Same with the water bottle, attached to the wire topper. I just ordered 6 inch dowels to glue to the new house. This all might work to remove the topper floor. Thank you all so much!!
D
Dusty's Mom
This topper floor is in two sections, a larger and a smaller. Maybe if I just remove the larger section that has the opening in it the smaller section might keep the topper in place...have to try that to see if it would work.
D
Dusty's Mom
I want to thank all of you for giving me much needed advice about caring for a hamster. But I am worried. Maybe Dusty is coming out at night, I don't know, but we haven't seen him out for over 48 hours. Should I be concerned?
R
RainbowBrite
Robo hamsters are very shy and it can take them a little longer to feel comfortable. I am sure Dusty is coming out when all is quiet and dark. It can help to get a camera so you can find out all Dusty gets up to.
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It does sound normal but I can also understand you’re worried.
It can take them a good 10 days to settle into a cage and new environment and scent mark everything and it’s usually then they start being out in the cage more and more confident.
So you get a new hamster and then hardly see them for a week to 10 days! It can be reassuring to have a sign they are ok so there a couple of things I do. One is the bit of substrate on top of the wheel so you know if the wheel has been used, and the other is giving a daily piece of raw veg - broccoli and cucumber are popular. Just a really tiny piece no bigger. Than their ear really, or not much bigger. Robos eat so little that they might still not eat all of it but you should see it either nibbled and lesser, or gone. They can’t resist fresh veg so the only time I worry is if they haven’t eaten any of their veg.
I’d start with cucumber mainly and put it on a separate little dish (eg a jar lid) away from their house or nest.
At first every 3 days for a week then you can give it every day. So for the first week you’ll need to rely on the substrate having gone from the top of the wheel on the days he doesn’t have veg
. They love their wheels so he’s bound to keep using it.
The other thing is, during this settling in period, it’s best not to do any cleaning out or change things. Adding something new is usually accepted ok but moving things or taking them out isn’t a good idea.
Which is partly why I suggested just putting cardboard on the floor of the topper for now so it’s not a huge change. Although if you did decide to move him to the bigger tank instead thst would be ok but you’d probably need to start the settling in period all over again.
Too many changes in the existing cage right now might stress him and the settling in take longer.
It really is just a bit of time and patience with hamsters initially
It can take them a good 10 days to settle into a cage and new environment and scent mark everything and it’s usually then they start being out in the cage more and more confident.
So you get a new hamster and then hardly see them for a week to 10 days! It can be reassuring to have a sign they are ok so there a couple of things I do. One is the bit of substrate on top of the wheel so you know if the wheel has been used, and the other is giving a daily piece of raw veg - broccoli and cucumber are popular. Just a really tiny piece no bigger. Than their ear really, or not much bigger. Robos eat so little that they might still not eat all of it but you should see it either nibbled and lesser, or gone. They can’t resist fresh veg so the only time I worry is if they haven’t eaten any of their veg.
I’d start with cucumber mainly and put it on a separate little dish (eg a jar lid) away from their house or nest.
At first every 3 days for a week then you can give it every day. So for the first week you’ll need to rely on the substrate having gone from the top of the wheel on the days he doesn’t have veg
. They love their wheels so he’s bound to keep using it.The other thing is, during this settling in period, it’s best not to do any cleaning out or change things. Adding something new is usually accepted ok but moving things or taking them out isn’t a good idea.
Which is partly why I suggested just putting cardboard on the floor of the topper for now so it’s not a huge change. Although if you did decide to move him to the bigger tank instead thst would be ok but you’d probably need to start the settling in period all over again.
Too many changes in the existing cage right now might stress him and the settling in take longer.
It really is just a bit of time and patience with hamsters initially
D
Dusty's Mom
Thanks so much for this information. Question. Would we put the veg in the topper or on the bedding? I did the piece of bedding on top of the wheel last night and it is still there this morning. I worry that he may be getting dehydrated not drinking. We did sprinkle some of he food over the bedding the first time we set up the cage. I agree not disturbing him any more is good. I did get the card board on the floor of the topper.It does sound normal but I can also understand you’re worried.
It can take them a good 10 days to settle into a cage and new environment and scent mark everything and it’s usually then they start being out in the cage more and more confident.
So you get a new hamster and then hardly see them for a week to 10 days! It can be reassuring to have a sign they are ok so there a couple of things I do. One is the bit of substrate on top of the wheel so you know if the wheel has been used, and the other is giving a daily piece of raw veg - broccoli and cucumber are popular. Just a really tiny piece no bigger. Than their ear really, or not much bigger. Robos eat so little that they might still not eat all of it but you should see it either nibbled and lesser, or gone. They can’t resist fresh veg so the only time I worry is if they haven’t eaten any of their veg.
I’d start with cucumber mainly and put it on a separate little dish (eg a jar lid) away from their house or nest.
At first every 3 days for a week then you can give it every day. So for the first week you’ll need to rely on the substrate having gone from the top of the wheel on the days he doesn’t have veg
The other thing is, during this settling in period, it’s best not to do any cleaning out or change things. Adding something new is usually accepted ok but moving things or taking them out isn’t a good idea.
Which is partly why I suggested just putting cardboard on the floor of the topper for now so it’s not a huge change. Although if you did decide to move him to the bigger tank instead thst would be ok but you’d probably need to start the settling in period all over again.
Too many changes in the existing cage right now might stress him and the settling in take longer.
It really is just a bit of time and patience with hamsters initially
I am looking into a camera, but I am confused as to which type to get as there are many and many price ranges. I have never used one of those type cameras before. They were not around when I had my kids.
That give you a hint as to how old I am..... LOL! Thanks again. Oh, I am also looking into the best size tank for him for later after he has settled into this cage for a while. I was thinking for out space in our house we might be able to to a 60 gallon tank with screen lid. They are 48.5 inches X 18.5 inches X 16 inches high. Would that work for having a deep bedding end and a shallow end for wheel and water bottle? Or maybe just put all that on stilt platforms? I have looked at the pictures here and other places. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks again!
Also, just so you can understand, this hamster is my 14 yr old granddaughters pet. She is autistic and gets overwhelmed easily. A super large tank might be too much for her to handle upkeep on. So I am keeping that in mind too. Thanks for everything.
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At this stage I would put the veg in the lower tank part on a little dish. If you think he might not be going up top (as he hasn't used the wheel) then it would be an idea to have a separate water source in the bottom, tank section as well - just in case. You could either velcro the bottle to the inside of the tank (it needs to be reasonably low for a Robo) or use a water dish, but ideally the water dish needs to stand on something solid like a platform which might not be possible at the moment. Something like the little Ikea Glasig tealights is good as it's not too big they can fall into it.
A nightcam isn't essential and some are quite expensive, but it's nice to have. Something like this one maybe It seems popular with pet owners. They seem less expensive in the US than the UK!
TP Link Tapo
I've usually found TP Link reliable - we have some smart plugs from them and they make wifi routers as well. You put the app on your phone and then you can actually watch live on your phone from another room - eg in bed after the lights are off. Or you can watch the recording from the night before on your phone next day (or skim through it). You put a micro sd card inside it and they recorded continuously in a loop. Once the sd card is full it starts again and wipes over the first part of the footage, but that can be after quite a long time.
That tank sounds a good size. A four foot tank would be great for a robo. The minimum recommended length is 40" (in the Uk but widely accepted now). With the height it might limit putting larger items in there like cork logs, once you have 25cm of bedding but it could work. Some people do have a shallow end as well - the main thing is that the majority of the length has the same level of bedding so they can tunnel and burrow. So you could maybe have 25cm in most of the cage and 15 to 20cm in the lower section. But it's better to have things like wheels and sandbaths on platforms if possible so they can go underneath them. So platforms are the key. You can buy some with 15cm legs but that can get expensive.
Filling it could add up a bit perhaps! Although you can use home made items like cardboard tunnels (pringles tubes are good - cleaned out and with the silver lining pulled out). or square tissue box hides or you can make hides out of cardboard egg boxes as well.
The idea is to have as much clutter on top of the substrate as possible so they don't feel nervous being out and can dive under something easily, rather than a lot of open space, so people use things like cork tunnels and sprays to help with cover (eg sprays of wheat, millet and other types) and they enjoy foraging from those as well. But robos really love their wheels as well.
If you have someone who is good at making things with wood, then the easiest and cheapest thing would probably be to make one long platform that fits the width of the cage at one end, about 25cm deep, that the sand bath and wheel could stand on.
There's some maths to do as well! If the tank is 16" high and they have say a 9" wheel and an inch of clearance at the top for the lid, then, allowing for the thickness of the platform (maybe half inch if using a piece of pine) the platform would need to be about 15cm tall and your lower area would need about 3" to 4" of substrate
It'll be nice for your grand-daughter and I'm sure there is flexibility so it works for her as well. Robos are very entertaining to watch, once they gain in confidence and are out and about. They are very energetic and speedy - not easy to hold, but lovely to watch.
The only other consideration is if you want to use a tank for a different species of hamster in future, eg a Syrian, it would need to be a bit taller as they have larger wheels.
A nightcam isn't essential and some are quite expensive, but it's nice to have. Something like this one maybe
It seems popular with pet owners. They seem less expensive in the US than the UK!TP Link Tapo
I've usually found TP Link reliable - we have some smart plugs from them and they make wifi routers as well. You put the app on your phone and then you can actually watch live on your phone from another room - eg in bed after the lights are off. Or you can watch the recording from the night before on your phone next day (or skim through it). You put a micro sd card inside it and they recorded continuously in a loop. Once the sd card is full it starts again and wipes over the first part of the footage, but that can be after quite a long time.
That tank sounds a good size. A four foot tank would be great for a robo. The minimum recommended length is 40" (in the Uk but widely accepted now). With the height it might limit putting larger items in there like cork logs, once you have 25cm of bedding but it could work. Some people do have a shallow end as well - the main thing is that the majority of the length has the same level of bedding so they can tunnel and burrow. So you could maybe have 25cm in most of the cage and 15 to 20cm in the lower section. But it's better to have things like wheels and sandbaths on platforms if possible so they can go underneath them. So platforms are the key. You can buy some with 15cm legs but that can get expensive.
Filling it could add up a bit perhaps! Although you can use home made items like cardboard tunnels (pringles tubes are good - cleaned out and with the silver lining pulled out). or square tissue box hides or you can make hides out of cardboard egg boxes as well.
The idea is to have as much clutter on top of the substrate as possible so they don't feel nervous being out and can dive under something easily, rather than a lot of open space, so people use things like cork tunnels and sprays to help with cover (eg sprays of wheat, millet and other types) and they enjoy foraging from those as well. But robos really love their wheels as well.
If you have someone who is good at making things with wood, then the easiest and cheapest thing would probably be to make one long platform that fits the width of the cage at one end, about 25cm deep, that the sand bath and wheel could stand on.
There's some maths to do as well! If the tank is 16" high and they have say a 9" wheel and an inch of clearance at the top for the lid, then, allowing for the thickness of the platform (maybe half inch if using a piece of pine) the platform would need to be about 15cm tall and your lower area would need about 3" to 4" of substrate
It'll be nice for your grand-daughter and I'm sure there is flexibility so it works for her as well. Robos are very entertaining to watch, once they gain in confidence and are out and about. They are very energetic and speedy - not easy to hold, but lovely to watch.
The only other consideration is if you want to use a tank for a different species of hamster in future, eg a Syrian, it would need to be a bit taller as they have larger wheels.
D
Dusty's Mom
As always thank you so much for your information and time. I appreciate it so much! I just purchased a cam on Amazon.At this stage I would put the veg in the lower tank part on a little dish. If you think he might not be going up top (as he hasn't used the wheel) then it would be an idea to have a separate water source in the bottom, tank section as well - just in case. You could either velcro the bottle to the inside of the tank (it needs to be reasonably low for a Robo) or use a water dish, but ideally the water dish needs to stand on something solid like a platform which might not be possible at the moment. Something like the little Ikea Glasig tealights is good as it's not too big they can fall into it.
A nightcam isn't essential and some are quite expensive, but it's nice to have. Something like this one maybe
TP Link Tapo
I've usually found TP Link reliable - we have some smart plugs from them and they make wifi routers as well. You put the app on your phone and then you can actually watch live on your phone from another room - eg in bed after the lights are off. Or you can watch the recording from the night before on your phone next day (or skim through it). You put a micro sd card inside it and they recorded continuously in a loop. Once the sd card is full it starts again and wipes over the first part of the footage, but that can be after quite a long time.
That tank sounds a good size. A four foot tank would be great for a robo. The minimum recommended length is 40" (in the Uk but widely accepted now). With the height it might limit putting larger items in there like cork logs, once you have 25cm of bedding but it could work. Some people do have a shallow end as well - the main thing is that the majority of the length has the same level of bedding so they can tunnel and burrow. So you could maybe have 25cm in most of the cage and 15 to 20cm in the lower section. But it's better to have things like wheels and sandbaths on platforms if possible so they can go underneath them. So platforms are the key. You can buy some with 15cm legs but that can get expensive.
Filling it could add up a bit perhaps! Although you can use home made items like cardboard tunnels (pringles tubes are good - cleaned out and with the silver lining pulled out). or square tissue box hides or you can make hides out of cardboard egg boxes as well.
The idea is to have as much clutter on top of the substrate as possible so they don't feel nervous being out and can dive under something easily, rather than a lot of open space, so people use things like cork tunnels and sprays to help with cover (eg sprays of wheat, millet and other types) and they enjoy foraging from those as well. But robos really love their wheels as well.
If you have someone who is good at making things with wood, then the easiest and cheapest thing would probably be to make one long platform that fits the width of the cage at one end, about 25cm deep, that the sand bath and wheel could stand on.
There's some maths to do as well! If the tank is 16" high and they have say a 9" wheel and an inch of clearance at the top for the lid, then, allowing for the thickness of the platform (maybe half inch if using a piece of pine) the platform would need to be about 15cm tall and your lower area would need about 3" to 4" of substrate
It'll be nice for your grand-daughter and I'm sure there is flexibility so it works for her as well. Robos are very entertaining to watch, once they gain in confidence and are out and about. They are very energetic and speedy - not easy to hold, but lovely to watch.
The only other consideration is if you want to use a tank for a different species of hamster in future, eg a Syrian, it would need to be a bit taller as they have larger wheels.
I hope it will work out for me. Thanks for the link of the other camera, I may check it out as well.
The tank size I end up getting will probably be what can fit in my budget and the space we have here. I have a table I can use that is 39 inches X 22 inches. A 4 foot tank is too long and the 3 foot tank you said was too small. So I am still doing research. I do so appreciate the guidelines you have given.
In order to get some fresh food and a water source down on the lower bedding area of this set up means I have to remove the topper and slide open the topper floor to get to it. That may disturb Dusty again. But I would rather get him what he needs within easier reach for him. So I will try to get that done today and probably start the 10 day waiting period again.
But I don't want him to starve or go without water. So I have closed off the topper area and put in a small cardboard box as a platform for the water bottle and the veg. I sprinkled his food from his bowl onto the bedding and threw in a millet spray. I put his sand bath on the bedding for now. The water bottle touches the topper floor that ads stability to the water bottle. Best I can do right now. I will watch for the box getting chewed on and the sand bath tipping and see if he comes out to get the carrot. I didn't have a very small dish for the carrot that wasn't too deep for him. I didn't have cucumber or cabbage at this moment.
Thanks again!
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I'm sure those minor changes won't have set the settling in time back much I hope he has a nibble of the carrot Presumably he won't have access to the wheel then at the moment. But you can only do so much at once.
I hope he has a nibble of the carrot Presumably he won't have access to the wheel then at the moment. But you can only do so much at once.
D
Dusty's Mom
Yes the wheel is too tall for the tank and the bedding. I do have a stand for it so it can go on a platform in a deeper tank, but right now there is not room for the wheel.I'm sure those minor changes won't have set the settling in time back much
It makes me wonder what animal would this cage be good for. It is sold as a hamster cage, it is not ideal for gerbils or hamsters, so I wonder what?
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Sorry I missed the photo of the cardboard above - that looks ok. What size is the current tank? Unfortunately there are no welfare guidelines for hamster cages in most countries (Germany has them, the UK now has pet charity guidelines but not legal ones) so technically anything can be sold as a hamster cage and there are some awful tiny ones. I don't know much about gerbils but I always thought a cage with a topper was more for gerbils?
Did you buy this cage specially when getting the robo? If so you could maybe try asking for a refund if getting another one and saying it's not suitable for a Roborovski hamster. Did the pet shop sell it to you?
I think he'll be fine in there for now. It would be good if he could have the wheel as well somehow. Or access to it.
I think the difficulty with cage set ups is because of the deep bedding needed. I have a barred cage so it's easier to attach things like wheels and water bottles, but it's not so easy to fit deeper bedding in!
You're doing a grand job and clearly care about him and want things right for him
Did you buy this cage specially when getting the robo? If so you could maybe try asking for a refund if getting another one and saying it's not suitable for a Roborovski hamster. Did the pet shop sell it to you?
I think he'll be fine in there for now. It would be good if he could have the wheel as well somehow. Or access to it.
I think the difficulty with cage set ups is because of the deep bedding needed. I have a barred cage so it's easier to attach things like wheels and water bottles, but it's not so easy to fit deeper bedding in!
You're doing a grand job and clearly care about him and want things right for him
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It sounds like you'll need to have a think about the tanks. If the 4 foot one won't fit. And if you already have a 3 foot one. Obviously the more space you can give the better but I think a 3 foot tank is seen as perfectly acceptable in the US As long as it's deep enough and tall enough. It's only about 4" shorter than a 100cm one.
Just to give you an idea of how active Robos can be once settled in, this is a short video clip of my last Robo at night It's not speeded up either! He was like yours at first, hid away a lot. But gradually they come out and you can chat to them. This is a 100cm cage.
As long as it's deep enough and tall enough. It's only about 4" shorter than a 100cm one.Just to give you an idea of how active Robos can be once settled in, this is a short video clip of my last Robo at night
It's not speeded up either! He was like yours at first, hid away a lot. But gradually they come out and you can chat to them. This is a 100cm cage.
D
Dusty's Mom
Thank you so much for the video. I see the need for a deep tank to give enough deep bedding and platforms for all the other things for activities for them. BTW, I just walked by Dusty's cage and one of the carrot pieces it gone!! No sign of Dusty but one piece was gone. Yeah!It sounds like you'll need to have a think about the tanks. If the 4 foot one won't fit. And if you already have a 3 foot one. Obviously the more space you can give the better but I think a 3 foot tank is seen as perfectly acceptable in the US
Just to give you an idea of how active Robos can be once settled in, this is a short video clip of my last Robo at night
D
Dusty's Mom
Thanks so much for more great info. This tank I have Dusty in I got for our two gerbils. I didn't know about what gerbils really needed and I thought I was giving them a great cage because the pet shop where I bought the gerbils told me I needed a glass tank for them because they chew out of anything plastic and they said two gerbils need a 20 gallon long tank, 30x12x12 inches. They sold me a reptile tank that size with a screen top. Well, gerbils need a very large wheel and it wouldn't fit in that tank. So I 'upgraded' to this tank from Amazon thinking the topper was giving the gerbils a lot more space. This tank is the same size but with a topper. And it did, but just not enough. Since learning about gerbils on the gerbil forum that LilyandDaisy is also a member of.....I ended up learning a lot and getting a 40 gallon breeder tank 36x18x16 inches with a topper I made for it. The topper is the wire top to the Prevue 528 hamster cage with a home made wooden floor that my son made for me that just fits over the top of the tank. The gerbils love all of it. Here is a photo of the gerbil cage now. It is due for a spot cleaning. If there was a tank with a topper like this and the bedding was all the way up to the bottom of the topper floor.....would that work for a hamster? Maybe then the tank wouldn't have to be so deep....maybe a 12 inch deep tank. I don't think they make them that shallow with an 18 inch width and 36 inch length. LOL! The topper acts like the shelves in hamster cages I think. I am still learning and I appreciate your patience with me as I try to figure out something really nice for Dusty.Sorry I missed the photo of the cardboard above - that looks ok. What size is the current tank? Unfortunately there are no welfare guidelines for hamster cages in most countries (Germany has them, the UK now has pet charity guidelines but not legal ones) so technically anything can be sold as a hamster cage and there are some awful tiny ones. I don't know much about gerbils but I always thought a cage with a topper was more for gerbils?
Did you buy this cage specially when getting the robo? If so you could maybe try asking for a refund if getting another one and saying it's not suitable for a Roborovski hamster. Did the pet shop sell it to you?
I think he'll be fine in there for now. It would be good if he could have the wheel as well somehow. Or access to it.
I think the difficulty with cage set ups is because of the deep bedding needed. I have a barred cage so it's easier to attach things like wheels and water bottles, but it's not so easy to fit deeper bedding in!
You're doing a grand job and clearly care about him and want things right for him
Personally I like the barred cages for the water and wheel etc. And a front door for access to them. And the only way to have that for the gerbils was to get the right size tank and make a wire topper for it. Would something like that work for hamsters. I know there is a fall risk we would have to be sure isn't there. That is why I said the bedding would have to be all the way up to the topper. Just thinking outside the box I guess. Thanks so much again!
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That's a lovely job done for the gerbil cage There actually used to be a cage like that in Europe with a tank for a base and barred topper. I often considered it for a hamster, but it's very difficult to make it work to avoid the fall risks and actually make the enrichment on top of the bedding available. Also the barred top only had a top door which wasn't good with the height of it.
It was this one. The 100 x 50 one. It was popular with gerbil owners though.
www.skyline.de
I looked at all kinds of ways that might work for a hamster and couldn't work out a good set up as well as avoiding fall risks. But then I didn't know about platforms back then. If you filled the tank to the top with substrate and used the shelves, so it was like a normal barred cage with a very deep base, and a wheel attached to the bars, it could have worked but wouldn't be easy to set up to avoid fall risks from a height. Robos are so tiny and easily injured, so most people prefer tank style cages for them rather than barred cages. Or barred cages with very narrow bar spacing. The rescue I got my last robo from said he was used to being in a barred cage and didn't climb and thought he'd be fine in the one I had. He was but he did get higher up than I imagined at times! And eventually I changed his set up to this, which reduced the height of the cage so it was much lower. It meant using perspex panels inside the bars to fit deeper bedding and reduce the height of the cage - and also have perspex round the top, so it wasn't possible to climb to the top, so there was only a narrow section of bars. Meaning it was more or less a tank with just a small section of bars left then. That did allow me to attach the wheel to the bars though but I needed to use platforms on legs rather than shelves.
Anyway back to the tank with the topper. I think Daisy's suggestion was to use the tank as a base filled with substrate and the bars for the "cage". A bit like the Falco cage above. I think that is an option but would be very difficult to set up safely due to the height of the bars. Unless you could do something like fit perpex panels round the inside of the bars at the top so there was only say 25cm of bar height and the rest above that was perspex - so the roof couldn't be reached. You could then have a shelf and wheel that screwed to the bars rather than platforms but a house would still need to be on legs. A sand bath could go on the shelf though.
But the Prevue top wouldn't fit on top of the tank without the wood section. If using the tank with the wood section and bars then you would need to only half fill the tank part with substrate, so there's space for the enrichment on top of the substrate (eg hides and tunnels and sprays and the house) and to make it safe then you'd need something like a platform over the centre hole so it couldn't be fallen down from a height, and probably perpex round the top of the bars as well to reduce the height of the bars (for a Robo anyway).
Because they'd only be able to land on something hard, rather than substrate, if they climbed the bars - they get up to all sorts at night and climb on top of things etc.
So although it could be possible to work out a way to use it with the wood section and topper, it does kind of create a divide between the hamster's living environment (ie the substrate area where they tunnel and where they have their normal habits of digging, foraging etc) and having to go somewhere else to use the wheel. It is possible though, if set up carefully.
Personally I think it would be better to just have a tank with everything at "floor level" as they are basically ground dwellers who dig. Hamsters can climb but they aren't very good at getting down again so tend to just drop. A robo might not climb - but they might do it one day!
Technically also, a Robo could try to squeeze through 1cm bars and get stuck part way. Some of that depends on the size of the Robo and whether they'd be the type to try it! The bar spacing on my cage was nearer 8mm. People do keep robos in cages with 1cm bar spacing though and it tends to be bar spacing larger than 1cm that is risky. And I haven't heard of a robo trying to get through 1cm bar spacing. I was always slightly worried about that myself though, when my robo stuck his nose through the bars once!
So personally I think it would either be better to use a tank with a lid and platforms. Or use the Prevue cage with deeper bedding - a similar idea to my cage set up above. Something bigger than the Prevue would be better though and there aren't really any larger barred cages in the US. In the Uk and Europe there is a reasonable selection of 100cm barred cages (only two or three though!) whereas tanks cost a fortune, so a lot of people do diy cages. Ikea hacks and so on.
It's annoying that something isn't sold that is just right for hamsters and comes with the right shelves and hamsters, so everything needs to be adapted somehow.
I think your 3 foot tank with a lid could work, if using platforms or one large platform at one end. Ideally it would be slightly longer, but it's still a good size. A tank allows for the depth of bedding and the enrichment/roaming environment all on one level, with low climbing - eg only a few inches up to a platform or a cork log to climb over. So more floor area and less height is better.
The other alternative, which a lot of US owners use is a bin cage and you can get some really quite large ones. I believe Homemart is the place where you can get 160 litre, 200 litre or larger bin cages. That needs some diy as the lid needs the centre cutting out and meshing. But heightwise I'm not sure it would be any deeper than a 40 gallon breeder tank.
A 40 gallon breeder tank is a perfectly acceptable size in the US but smaller than that would be too small really. You could still have 10" of bedding in parts of the cage and 8" in the rest (eg sloped) and a slightly lower area with a platform. And it would be a safe set up for a Robo without having to try and work out fall risks.
It's throw up between deeper bedding and an environment that allows a hamster to have more normal behaviours without going to separate areas to do their usual things.
A lot of the enrichment at floor level - all the hides and cork logs etc, is to allow the hamster to feel secure when out in the open, so it's possible a robo might not like going up to the top part as well if they feel a bit exposed.
Once you work out the platforms, the rest is fairly easy to set up in a tank But I know what you mean about liking a front opening door. And wouldn't it be nice if a tank had a front opening door.
There is one actually - but it's expensive! It's a 100cm perspex tank with a front opening door (the Bucatstate) and it's very popular. But it's expensive. And you still need platforms and other enrichment. It has the extra height for both the bedding and the wheel etc. However I think 30cm bedding is the absolute max without it making the perspex sides bow out! So 25cm would be better.
Bucatstate 100 - click here]
Also available at Bucatstate - click here
There's also this one from Exotic Nutrition which is a bit less expensive. It doesn't have a front opening door, as such, but it does have a lid that slopes down to the front so accessibility is slightly better than directly from above.
exoticnutrition.com
Edit - at least you know Dusty is ok As he took the piece of carrot. That's what gives me reassurance, that veg has been nibbled at or gone if you don't see them.
There actually used to be a cage like that in Europe with a tank for a base and barred topper. I often considered it for a hamster, but it's very difficult to make it work to avoid the fall risks and actually make the enrichment on top of the bedding available. Also the barred top only had a top door which wasn't good with the height of it.It was this one. The 100 x 50 one. It was popular with gerbil owners though.
Falco Cage for Rodent and Reptile - Skyline - Lifestyle für Tiere
GREAT DESIGN & OPTIMAL HABITAT FOR YOUR FAVORITE! The Skyline Rodent and Reptilienheim Falco is a chic and optimal habitat for small mammals such as hamsters, rats, mice and reptiles ... To shop, please click on the logo of our partner zooplus
www.skyline.de
I looked at all kinds of ways that might work for a hamster and couldn't work out a good set up as well as avoiding fall risks. But then I didn't know about platforms back then. If you filled the tank to the top with substrate and used the shelves, so it was like a normal barred cage with a very deep base, and a wheel attached to the bars, it could have worked but wouldn't be easy to set up to avoid fall risks from a height. Robos are so tiny and easily injured, so most people prefer tank style cages for them rather than barred cages. Or barred cages with very narrow bar spacing. The rescue I got my last robo from said he was used to being in a barred cage and didn't climb and thought he'd be fine in the one I had. He was but he did get higher up than I imagined at times! And eventually I changed his set up to this, which reduced the height of the cage so it was much lower. It meant using perspex panels inside the bars to fit deeper bedding and reduce the height of the cage - and also have perspex round the top, so it wasn't possible to climb to the top, so there was only a narrow section of bars. Meaning it was more or less a tank with just a small section of bars left then. That did allow me to attach the wheel to the bars though but I needed to use platforms on legs rather than shelves.
Anyway back to the tank with the topper. I think Daisy's suggestion was to use the tank as a base filled with substrate and the bars for the "cage". A bit like the Falco cage above. I think that is an option but would be very difficult to set up safely due to the height of the bars. Unless you could do something like fit perpex panels round the inside of the bars at the top so there was only say 25cm of bar height and the rest above that was perspex - so the roof couldn't be reached. You could then have a shelf and wheel that screwed to the bars rather than platforms but a house would still need to be on legs. A sand bath could go on the shelf though.
But the Prevue top wouldn't fit on top of the tank without the wood section. If using the tank with the wood section and bars then you would need to only half fill the tank part with substrate, so there's space for the enrichment on top of the substrate (eg hides and tunnels and sprays and the house) and to make it safe then you'd need something like a platform over the centre hole so it couldn't be fallen down from a height, and probably perpex round the top of the bars as well to reduce the height of the bars (for a Robo anyway).
Because they'd only be able to land on something hard, rather than substrate, if they climbed the bars - they get up to all sorts at night and climb on top of things etc.
So although it could be possible to work out a way to use it with the wood section and topper, it does kind of create a divide between the hamster's living environment (ie the substrate area where they tunnel and where they have their normal habits of digging, foraging etc) and having to go somewhere else to use the wheel. It is possible though, if set up carefully.
Personally I think it would be better to just have a tank with everything at "floor level" as they are basically ground dwellers who dig. Hamsters can climb but they aren't very good at getting down again so tend to just drop. A robo might not climb - but they might do it one day!
Technically also, a Robo could try to squeeze through 1cm bars and get stuck part way. Some of that depends on the size of the Robo and whether they'd be the type to try it! The bar spacing on my cage was nearer 8mm. People do keep robos in cages with 1cm bar spacing though and it tends to be bar spacing larger than 1cm that is risky. And I haven't heard of a robo trying to get through 1cm bar spacing. I was always slightly worried about that myself though, when my robo stuck his nose through the bars once!
So personally I think it would either be better to use a tank with a lid and platforms. Or use the Prevue cage with deeper bedding - a similar idea to my cage set up above. Something bigger than the Prevue would be better though and there aren't really any larger barred cages in the US. In the Uk and Europe there is a reasonable selection of 100cm barred cages (only two or three though!) whereas tanks cost a fortune, so a lot of people do diy cages. Ikea hacks and so on.
It's annoying that something isn't sold that is just right for hamsters and comes with the right shelves and hamsters, so everything needs to be adapted somehow.
I think your 3 foot tank with a lid could work, if using platforms or one large platform at one end. Ideally it would be slightly longer, but it's still a good size. A tank allows for the depth of bedding and the enrichment/roaming environment all on one level, with low climbing - eg only a few inches up to a platform or a cork log to climb over. So more floor area and less height is better.
The other alternative, which a lot of US owners use is a bin cage and you can get some really quite large ones. I believe Homemart is the place where you can get 160 litre, 200 litre or larger bin cages. That needs some diy as the lid needs the centre cutting out and meshing. But heightwise I'm not sure it would be any deeper than a 40 gallon breeder tank.
A 40 gallon breeder tank is a perfectly acceptable size in the US but smaller than that would be too small really. You could still have 10" of bedding in parts of the cage and 8" in the rest (eg sloped) and a slightly lower area with a platform. And it would be a safe set up for a Robo without having to try and work out fall risks.
It's throw up between deeper bedding and an environment that allows a hamster to have more normal behaviours without going to separate areas to do their usual things.
A lot of the enrichment at floor level - all the hides and cork logs etc, is to allow the hamster to feel secure when out in the open, so it's possible a robo might not like going up to the top part as well if they feel a bit exposed.
Once you work out the platforms, the rest is fairly easy to set up in a tank
But I know what you mean about liking a front opening door. And wouldn't it be nice if a tank had a front opening door.There is one actually - but it's expensive! It's a 100cm perspex tank with a front opening door (the Bucatstate) and it's very popular. But it's expensive. And you still need platforms and other enrichment. It has the extra height for both the bedding and the wheel etc. However I think 30cm bedding is the absolute max without it making the perspex sides bow out! So 25cm would be better.
Bucatstate 100 - click here]
Also available at Bucatstate - click here
There's also this one from Exotic Nutrition which is a bit less expensive. It doesn't have a front opening door, as such, but it does have a lid that slopes down to the front so accessibility is slightly better than directly from above.
Sahara Cage
The Sahara Cage offers long-term usability due to its resilient, waterproof PVC construction, eliminating the issue of pet waste seeping into wood like other cages. The ample display space with a full-length detachable acrylic front panel and ready-to-view hinged top acrylic window provide the...
exoticnutrition.com
Edit - at least you know Dusty is ok
As he took the piece of carrot. That's what gives me reassurance, that veg has been nibbled at or gone if you don't see them.
Last edited:
D
Dusty's Mom
Thank so very much for the information and advice on tank set ups for Dusty. I know your time is valuable and I appreciate the time it took you to put this reply together for me. BTW the other two pieces of carrot were gone this morning. That is a relief to me. Thanks so very much for that suggestion!
Now I am seeing what you mean about the fall risks for hamsters and I agree. A barred cage like the Prevue 528 is a bit small and it does have a high barred topper. That is why I got it for my gerbils for their wheel to fit. I loved your cage set up and I see the cardboard and clear acrylic to hold deeper bedding in those pictures.
My table I can use is 39 inches X 22 inches. I was considering the 60 gallon at 48 X 18 X 16 or the 40 gallon at 36 X 18 X 16. That table would only be good for a 40 gallon tank. I can pick one up at our local pet store for $59.00. They are on half price sale when you buy online and pick up in the store. The 60 gallon is $99.00.
I have also seen the Bucastate cages as well. They are more expensive. But I like them. I like the front door opening and the top opening. And it would fit on my table and it gives more height than a tank. I also like you can see in on all four sides of the cage. I am leaning very much toward the Bucastate even though it is more pricey.
I don't care for the bin or plastic tub cage idea. We couldn't see Dusty as well and that is the whole point of having a pet....to see them and eventually interact with them.
One more question. How often can you feed hamsters fresh veggies and fruit? I don't want to give Dusty wet bottom. But I know they like fresh veggies too.
And I got the stilts (6 inch dowel rods) glued to the corners of his maze house. Every platform I see to buy is on 6 inch stilts, no taller. Is that deep enough bedding for around the cage with platforms for wheels, water bottles etc?
Thanks so much, Max, for being here for me. Your chats have been invaluable!
BTW the other two pieces of carrot were gone this morning. That is a relief to me. Thanks so very much for that suggestion!Now I am seeing what you mean about the fall risks for hamsters and I agree. A barred cage like the Prevue 528 is a bit small and it does have a high barred topper. That is why I got it for my gerbils for their wheel to fit. I loved your cage set up and I see the cardboard and clear acrylic to hold deeper bedding in those pictures.
My table I can use is 39 inches X 22 inches. I was considering the 60 gallon at 48 X 18 X 16 or the 40 gallon at 36 X 18 X 16. That table would only be good for a 40 gallon tank. I can pick one up at our local pet store for $59.00. They are on half price sale when you buy online and pick up in the store. The 60 gallon is $99.00.
I have also seen the Bucastate cages as well. They are more expensive. But I like them. I like the front door opening and the top opening. And it would fit on my table and it gives more height than a tank. I also like you can see in on all four sides of the cage. I am leaning very much toward the Bucastate even though it is more pricey.
I don't care for the bin or plastic tub cage idea. We couldn't see Dusty as well and that is the whole point of having a pet....to see them and eventually interact with them.
One more question. How often can you feed hamsters fresh veggies and fruit? I don't want to give Dusty wet bottom. But I know they like fresh veggies too.
And I got the stilts (6 inch dowel rods) glued to the corners of his maze house.
Every platform I see to buy is on 6 inch stilts, no taller. Is that deep enough bedding for around the cage with platforms for wheels, water bottles etc?Thanks so much, Max, for being here for me. Your chats have been invaluable!
D
Dusty's Mom
Sorry the auto spelling correction changed my z in your name to X....so sorry. And out cameras come today. Can't wait to set them up and see what we can see of Dusty's activities tonight.Thank so very much for the information and advice on tank set ups for Dusty. I know your time is valuable and I appreciate the time it took you to put this reply together for me.
Now I am seeing what you mean about the fall risks for hamsters and I agree. A barred cage like the Prevue 528 is a bit small and it does have a high barred topper. That is why I got it for my gerbils for their wheel to fit. I loved your cage set up and I see the cardboard and clear acrylic to hold deeper bedding in those pictures.
My table I can use is 39 inches X 22 inches. I was considering the 60 gallon at 48 X 18 X 16 or the 40 gallon at 36 X 18 X 16. That table would only be good for a 40 gallon tank. I can pick one up at our local pet store for $59.00. They are on half price sale when you buy online and pick up in the store. The 60 gallon is $99.00.
I have also seen the Bucastate cages as well. They are more expensive. But I like them. I like the front door opening and the top opening. And it would fit on my table and it gives more height than a tank. I also like you can see in on all four sides of the cage. I am leaning very much toward the Bucastate even though it is more pricey.
I don't care for the bin or plastic tub cage idea. We couldn't see Dusty as well and that is the whole point of having a pet....to see them and eventually interact with them.
One more question. How often can you feed hamsters fresh veggies and fruit? I don't want to give Dusty wet bottom. But I know they like fresh veggies too.
And I got the stilts (6 inch dowel rods) glued to the corners of his maze house.
Thanks so much, Maz, for being here for me. Your chats have been invaluable!
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That's great you got the dowel legs on the house Platforms for sale often aren't taller than 15cm - there are some about 21cm on Amazon I think. So it needs a bit of careful working out. If you were to have, say, a Bucatstate, where there's more height, you wouldn't need a shallow end and could have 25cm/10" or more bedding in the whole cage. Which means you'd need platforms with 30cm legs. That's what I went for. 25cm bedding and 30cm tall platforms. For the wheel though you would probably need a 25cm tall platform - so you have enough height for an 8" or 9" wheel. Or even a 10" so you have that bit of height leeway in case you ever decide to change the wheel. A 9" wheel is about right for a robo, although an 8" could be ok. Some people do use a 10" but I found 8" or 9" is about right. So that means the wheel platform would actually be the same level as the substrate and would be there just to support the wheel. That's ok though as they can still burrow under the wheel platform.
I'm not sure if you can get platforms with different leg height choices in the US but there might be some on Etsy. So the easiest thing would be to make them and just get the length of dowels you want and screw into them from the top of the platform. It would probably be quite a bit cheaper as well.
Platforms for sale often aren't taller than 15cm - there are some about 21cm on Amazon I think. So it needs a bit of careful working out. If you were to have, say, a Bucatstate, where there's more height, you wouldn't need a shallow end and could have 25cm/10" or more bedding in the whole cage. Which means you'd need platforms with 30cm legs. That's what I went for. 25cm bedding and 30cm tall platforms. For the wheel though you would probably need a 25cm tall platform - so you have enough height for an 8" or 9" wheel. Or even a 10" so you have that bit of height leeway in case you ever decide to change the wheel. A 9" wheel is about right for a robo, although an 8" could be ok. Some people do use a 10" but I found 8" or 9" is about right. So that means the wheel platform would actually be the same level as the substrate and would be there just to support the wheel. That's ok though as they can still burrow under the wheel platform.I'm not sure if you can get platforms with different leg height choices in the US but there might be some on Etsy. So the easiest thing would be to make them and just get the length of dowels you want and screw into them from the top of the platform. It would probably be quite a bit cheaper as well.